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Bpsb's avatar

This blog is awesome!

Keep on writing.

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Happy's avatar

I hope you will permit me another brief comment, haha.

“It is not history; it is midrash…Therefore, when approaching Rabbinic statements about the antiquity of the Oral Law and the transmission process, its infinitely more plausible that they are constructed narratives, not actual history.”

I agree with this to an extent (with major reservations). However, as I said in my comment to the previous post, our mesorah does not depend upon a handful of Aggadic statements about the Torah transmission process, but the fact that the entire Mishnah and Talmud is clearly derived from a mesorah, and we can pose a separate question as to when that mesorah begins.

“When we analyze the core elements of the doctrine of the Oral Law in Rabbinic texts, we can trace a clear historical development over the course of multiple generations. This would suggest a developing tradition, rather than ancient tradition that was simply recorded at a later time.”

Nobody argues that there is a developing tradition. This is what Rabbinical enactments are all about. The Rambam explains that there were always new halachic questions that needed to be addressed throughout the generations. However, most of your examples are not this.

“For example, the Tosefta in Sanhedrin (7:5) says that Hillel the Elder listed 7 hermeneutical laws in front of the B’nei Beteira. However, in the famousברייתא דר' ישמעאל, which was at least a century later (even if we accept the Rabbinic attribution to Hillel and R. Yishmael) he lists 13 methods. A generation later, R. Eliezer the son of R. Yosi Hagelili listed an astounding 32 methods! Evidently, there was a progression over time, with each generation refining and adding new methods.”

The classical explanation is that the 32 methods are a derivation of the 13 methods, and the 7 methods are a kitzur of the 13. I see nothing wrong with this explanation. You must assume away the classical explanation in order for this to be a proof. According to you, why didn’t the Gemara discuss this major machlokes between Hillel the Elder and the much later R. Eliezer? Were they just embarrassed?

“In general, scholars have identified two streams of thought in early Rabbinic literature. The school of R. Yishmael advocated an emphasis on the literal reading of the text, and in general did not allow for expansion of the law…”

Well, traditional scholars vehemently disagree with this. See Rav Hirsch in Collected Writings where he goes through tens of counterexamples from R’ Yishmael.

“(Additionally, the traditional distinction between Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel as being stricter or more lenient, which align with the personality of their founder is rather puzzling. In modern day halacha one can easily be a machmir or a meikel as we have plethora of sources with multitudes of opinions, and one can either forbid relying on one opinion over another or alternatively allow one to rely on a specific opinion. However, in the times of the Mishnah, this was rarely the case. If it was simply a matter of tradition, hermeneutics, or dispassionate logic, it’s difficult to see how one can tend to be one over the other.”

The opposite. This just shows that Bais Shamai and Beis Hillel were drawing from earlier oral sources and interpreting them, and that ultimately, Bais Shamai tended to be stricter. In this way, it is similar to modern day halacha. Your question is basically the same as “why is there machlokes?”, which is already addressed by Chazal and explained by the Geonim and the Rambam.

“In the Hellenic world, there were large schools of Grammarians (which corresponds to the term סופרים in Kiddushin 30a), most notably in Alexandria in the third and second centuries BCE, who developed various hermeneutical tools based on philology and logic, and they used these to interpret the books of Homer and other sacred texts. Some of the methods they used corresponded with Greek methods, such as קל וחומר (known in Latin as a fortiori, or from the stronger), גזירה שוה (known in Greek as synkrisis pros ison, or comparison to the equal), גימטריא and נוטריקון (which are themselves Greek terms). Many of them don’t correspond directly with Hellenic methods, but the general approach to interpreting texts used many of the same fundamental elements.5 While hermeneutics existed in the biblical era as well, particularly in the interpretation of dreams, incantations, and prophecies, they did not resemble the Hellenic system at all, which were largely lexical constructions and logical inferences.”

I find this to be a very weak point. Some of the comparisons are good, some are exceptionally weak. For example, kal v’chomer does parallel what is found in Aristotle, but kal v’chomer is already found in the Bible, and in many other legal systems and philosophies throughout the world. It is a pretty basic logical construct, and it is no surprise the the Greeks would share it with us. I find the gezeira shava comparison ridiculous, the Greek analogy has nothing to do with gezeira shava the way it is used in Shas, of using one word to transplant halachos from one concept to another. On the other hand, Chazal do use analogies, but that again is a pretty basic form of argument, found in the Bible and worldwide, and it is no surprise that we share it.

“…the Passover Seder which was modeled closely after the Greek Symposium”

There is no proof of this, and it’s an exceptionally weak comparison. Because they had drinking parties, our drinking parties must be modelled after theirs?

“One institution which has much halachic import is the Sanhedrin…An argument can possibly be made from the fact the early second temple texts make no reference of such a body.”

This has nothing to do with Oral Law. Judges are a universal function of all cultures. And why not make an argument that Biblical Texts make no reference to such a body? But that would be foolish, it’s clear that there were judges tasked with interpreting and meting out the law.

In general, these similarities are all minor and weak, just like the similarities between the Bible and Hammurabi. One can find similarities between the Rabbinic Law and ancient Hindu Law. One can find similarities between the Bible and ancient Hindu Law. One can find all sorts of interesting similarities between Aztec rituals and ancient Hindu rituals.

“The earliest record of esrog pollen in Judea is in the 5th century BCE, suggesting it was brought back from Persia after the exile.”

Wikipedia (quoting a book) - “Archaeological evidence for Citrus fruits is limited, as neither seeds nor pollen are likely to be routinely recovered in archaeology.”

“There have been numerous mikvaos discovered throughout Judea in the late second temple era (from the 2nd century BCE and onwards). However, although there have been a large amount of excavations in sites which were inhabited in the previous centuries, there has been very little found in terms of anything resembling a mikvah.”

Do we know when they made the enactment of מים שאובים? Because a mikveh מן התורה doesn’t have to “resemble” anything. From Wikipedia “The absence of dedicated mikvoth prior to the first century BCE is surprising, in that laws of purification were in fact kept by many Jews in earlier periods, as indicated by Biblical narratives[16] and the Elephantine papyri.[17] One suggestion is that Jews used natural water sources such as springs for immersion, rather than building dedicated mikvoth.[18] Alternatively, according to many Halakhic authorities the prohibition on using pumped water for a mikveh is rabbinic, not biblical.[19] Prior to the creation of such a rabbinic decree around 100 BCE,[dubious – discuss] Jews may have immersed in above-ground basins that were built as part of buildings, or affixed to the roofs of buildings, and filled manually.[17] Such structures, dating to the First Temple period, have been discovered in ancient Ashdod and possibly in Dan.[17]”

“However, prior to the caves in Qumran, there hasn’t been one pair of tefillin found.”

How many pairs of tefillin do you expect to be found? How many leather shoes were found? Not that many. Also, we should ask ourselves, why was there a pair of Tefillin found among the sectarians of an opposing sect to the Rabbis? The obvious conclusion is that Tefillin predated this sectarianism.

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